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Episode 6: The Importance of Transparency When Approaching Customer Data and Security with Laura Luckman Kelber of Double Good


Episode details:

The tech space is constantly growing and changing. As a result, companies focus on creating solutions featuring capabilities that will make them stand out and become the number one option for prospects. 

Still, it is hard to determine how to approach customers if you've just launched your business. Luckily, there's so much data in the digital space that defining your ideal customer profile is not as complex as it sounds. It all comes down to proper research. 

However, if you crave success, you need to be direct and transparent about accessing customer data and using it. If your methods provide a better customer experience, you can expect a thumbs-up from users. 

In this episode of The Vibe, Laura Luckman Kelber, the Chief Marketing Officer at Double Good, joins our host, Alex Campbell, to discuss the tech space, the difference between apps and websites, transparency and data security, and marketing in the pre-email era. 


About the podcast:

The Vibe is a podcast for modern marketers looking to stay at the forefront of marketing and keep up with emerging technologies. In each episode host, Alex Campbell offers cutting-edge thought leadership on building omnichannel experiences consumers want and mobile-first brands that do it all. Through expert interviews, thought leadership discussions, and brand spotlights, listeners leave equipped with strategies, insights, and trending news to elevate their careers and navigate the changing marketing world.


Episode Transcription:

[00:00:00] All right, well, welcome to The Vibe podcast. I'm very excited for today's episode. I'm very excited because we have Laura Luckman Kelber, who is the CMO of a company called Double Good. So rather than me introduce you, I would love for you to introduce you. So welcome, welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:29] Thank you. I, um, have been in marketing way too long. Um, I started in marketing before email. 

[00:00:37] Alex Campbell: Oh. 

[00:00:38] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. 

[00:00:39] Alex Campbell: What was that like?

[00:00:41] Laura Luckman Kelber: Well, it was crazy because we didn't have email at Discover Card. 

[00:00:46] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:00:46] Laura Luckman Kelber: And you wanted email at Discover Card 'cause I had it in business school, 

[00:00:51] but then you've got, and it was a security issue for them at that point in time, which is interesting.

[00:00:55] Now, when we talk about security, right, it's sort of comfortable circle, full circle. They eventually got email, of course, but it's like, you know, they didn't have a fax machine at that point. Right? Anyway, they did a fax machine, that's what they had. 

[00:01:09] Alex Campbell: Wow. That's crazy. That's so crazy.

[00:01:11] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah, that's crazy.

[00:01:13] So I have mostly been, and I do have an MBA in marketing, I've mostly been on the agency side, 

[00:01:22] but I started post-MBA on the clients’ side. 

[00:01:27] Alex Campbell: Okay.

[00:01:27] And, but I will always say that I was raised at DDB 

[00:01:31] Alex Campbell: Oh yeah. 

[00:01:32] Laura Luckman Kelber: in Chicago, Doyle Dane Bernbach is what it stands for. 

[00:01:34] Alex Campbell: The old institution. 

[00:01:36] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yes.

[00:01:37] And, institution, and I was there when they were at the top of their game, when WhatsApp was winning can line, and I was at a holiday party where they had a live line on stage. That's 

[00:01:49] Alex Campbell: Oh, yeah. 

[00:01:50] Laura Luckman Kelber: sort of story. Yes. 

[00:01:51] Alex Campbell: Really? 

[00:01:52] Laura Luckman Kelber: We had epic agency parties, like, you know, you would imagine, um. 

[00:01:58] Alex Campbell: It's funny 'cause now those are like, those are the tech parties, right? The epic tech parties, it's turning into that. 

[00:02:04] Laura Luckman Kelber: Right. They just, yeah, they just sort of took the same idea and, you know, repurposed it. I mean, humans are humans, right? That's why Shakespeare is Shakespeare. But, you know, and I've worked big and small, and I think, you know, I've always been curious and wanting to learn, and so at the very beginning of digital, I, I was in direct response, right,

[00:02:26] or direct mail, as it was called. I used to go on Press-O-tape and have tapes of data that I have to do a data dump. But I, I went to, you know, we did email marketing, and we did, I went into you know, website building. I actually learned how to write HTML code at the National Center for Supercomputing at the University of Illinois. Really?

[00:02:48] Yes, when I was getting my MBA in the mid-90s. 

[00:02:51] Alex Campbell: So one day, when you just decided to take it.

[00:02:55] Laura Luckman Kelber: They had a class, and you could take it. It was a, it was an elective, and what I remember is still it,

[00:03:04] still a clear lesson. We were all so fascinated with making, you know, things flashing at you and multiple colors and all that, and our professor would say, "Okay, but how is that useful?" Before user research and UX. 

[00:03:24] Alex Campbell: It's such a professor-question to ask.

[00:03:27] Yeah. And, I'm like flashing purples. It's moving, can you see it's moving?

[00:03:34] Laura Luckman Kelber: So, but I, I was always sort of stepping into new things and, you know, I, I, you know, web, and then I was at Havas, which was called Euro RSCG when I was there, and we, I have built the Sprint account, and that is when we stepped into mobile. Because we, our client, even though they were a mobile provider, right?

[00:03:58] They had no idea how to do mobile marketing. Well, no one did. It was sort of like the wild, wild west. And, the partner that they had was coming to them with the flashing purple unicorn. Right? And, they just needed the basics. They needed to know, "How do I send useful messages to my customers? How do we manage the data

[00:04:18] part of that?" You know, all the things that are not sexy, but really important. And, because of my relationship and because I was like, "Yeah.

[00:04:26] That's, that's about the fundamentals. If you don't have the fundamentals, who cares about the flashing unicorn? How's it useful?" Right? That same question. And so we actually ended up with the Sprint mobile business, and we had white-labeled it because we had no one who knew how to do it.

[00:04:41] We were just building up our digital chops in general. So that's sort of, when I got into that technology is more about being curious and thinking about how to solve the customer problem or the marketing problem, and then figuring out what's the right tool for that. Right now, we have so many tools,

[00:04:57] Laura Luckman Kelber: I think people just, you know, I'm not on TikTok because they have issues with their security and their data, and, but I just wonder how many brands are on TikTok because, you know, their CEO's daughter is on TikTok they thought it was a good idea, whether or not it was, you know, something right for their target.

[00:05:15] Anyway. 

[00:05:16] Alex Campbell: It's, it's so funny because in the early days when we were, we were talking to brands about mobile and this is right after the iPhone came out, or the app store came out, we, we kept going around to brands and they were like, they kept saying, "Yeah, I'm not really interested, i'm not really interested,"

[00:05:32] and then all of a sudden, it was like a switch flipped. And, we, and everyone kept asking, like, "I need an app, I need an app." And, we would always, and these apps were going back to your, like, fundamentals and useful, they weren't at all. They were just apps. And, so we finally started asking people, you know, why, why this sudden push for an app,

[00:05:51] and I remember when I, I'm not naming names, but one of them said, "Well, really what happened was our CEO got an iPhone and said, "Where's our app?"" 

[00:06:00] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. 

[00:06:00] Alex Campbell: Well, guess what became a priority? 

[00:06:02] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yes. And, I would ask those questions too because I'd say, "Well, what about a mobile website? Why do you need to build an app?" Right? "You could have the same internet activity." They couldn't understand that. But, um, but so I spent a long time, I was in a user experience design firm for a while, so I've sort of touched all the pieces.

[00:06:17] And then a client of mine brought me to a private equity-backed software company, not too long ago, and that's when I sort of switched back fully to client's side. And, that was great because the pace, you know, the pace on the agent side is really fast and intense, and the pace in private equity is really fast and intense. So making that switch made it easier for me because I am, as you can tell, very intense person.

[00:06:43] And, I had to basically build a modern marketing arm for them because their investors had basically said, "No one understands what you do," you know, "You need to sort of pull all the M&A pieces together into a story."

[00:06:57] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, that's what I did, and then we ended up selling to Thoma Bravo for 3.85 $ billion, from a billion to 3.85 $. 

[00:07:04] Alex Campbell: So you were successful, you just created a billion or two, right? I did. Anyway, I don't 

[00:07:08] Laura Luckman Kelber: know that I can take credit for that, but it was a fantastic, you know, lesson, right? And, it was a fantastic ride, and I most recently was recruited by Double Good to build a marketing thing, I'm always asked to be a builder. So, um, Double Good, has experienced tremendous growth for all the right reasons. They have built a very useful user-experience-driven application to fundraise, which doesn't really exist in the product-based fundraising arena. People found it at the beginning of COVID because we can send, you can raise your money, and we send the delicious, amazing, delectable popcorn anywhere. 

[00:07:53] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:07:54] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, and so they grew, I can't believe how fast they grew, um, in a very short period of time. So now I'm here helping them to build a brand, right? So, they have the technology,

[00:08:05] the great thing is I understand all of the technology, I understand the value of it, I understand the data and, you know, and I love that they come from a UX-lead 

[00:08:16] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:08:17] Laura Luckman Kelber: place, right? Because I've been in so many places where user experiences, I don't know if everybody understands what user experience design is, um, who's listening,

[00:08:25] user experience design is really when you think about what you're creating in a digital environment from the user's perspective, and the best way to do that is with user research. And it's well worth it. 

[00:08:38] If anyone's curious, go look up Nielsen Norman; they can tell you all about it. But really, you know, the technology here was based on those fundamentals and all that,

[00:08:47] the wonderful thing about this technology is that the engineering team, you know, to build something that's simple, you know, is not that easy. And we, It's not simple.

[00:08:59] Right? And so, we have a fantastic engineering team, by the way, we're expanding, if anybody's great engineers, looking, and they've been able to build, we dream it, they build it. 

[00:09:10] Alex Campbell: Yeah, that's great. 

[00:09:11] Laura Luckman Kelber: And it's great.

[00:09:13] And, we consistently use, use your feedback and it's extremely useful. That's what it is. There's no shy, if you go to our app, it's very simple. 

[00:09:21] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:09:23] Laura Luckman Kelber: Simple design. 

[00:09:24] Alex Campbell: Do you think that's kind of the secret in marketing, of simplicity over 

[00:09:28] complexity? 

[00:09:29] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yes. So another book I know, I don't know where it is, one of my favorite books, John Meda, if you guys don't know who John Meda is, you know, he's amazing, and he's currently, I think he's still running the Rhode Island School of Design, but he used to be at MIT. It's fantastic, and it's about the laws of simplicity. And even, you know, we're in COVID, and we're never going to get out of COVID. 

[00:09:54] Alex Campbell: Maybe by the time people are listening to this we'll be out of COVID.

[00:09:57] Laura Luckman Kelber: That would be nice. Sometime, ten years from now. Oh, really, would love to go back on safari in Africa. Okay. So, okay. Back to reality. So, and your question about simplicity, simplicity is hard to do, but in our lives, so here's the thing, if you, and you can look this up, there's lots of data around it, humans make 35,000 decisions a day, 35,000. 

[00:10:19] Alex Campbell: Wow.

[00:10:21] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, we are inundated with about, uh, word-piece size of data 

[00:10:27] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:10:28] Laura Luckman Kelber: every day. So think about that. You're making 35,000, and you get all this data coming at you. Right? So, first of all, our brain is fantastic. Right? It's a blessing. 


[00:10:36] But, but if you have that and, and you're asked to engage with something digitally or even think about making a choice, 

[00:10:45] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:10:46] Laura Luckman Kelber: you got to limit those choices, cur, make it simple, give people's minds some mental space, right?

[00:10:54] And, allow, you know, be kind about, you know, understand that. And, then you have COVID on top of it, and, you know, we have all these people talking about, you know, mass trauma from what we've all gone through. 

[00:11:04] Alex Campbell: Like, what you're doing, I mean, have you seen anything with consumers? I mean, it's obviously, I think about today versus just a year ago or two years ago, right? Where, I mean, I'm talking to my wife, and it was like, "Remember we went skiing and it was like, we could go to the, we've taken the kids to this little arcade, and like, it was so much fun."

[00:11:21] I was like, "Man, that was a totally different time." 

[00:11:25] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. Right. 

[00:11:25] Alex Campbell: Are you, are you seeing, are you changing anything with how you're approaching the market based on knowing that we're, we're what, two years into this?

[00:11:36] Laura Luckman Kelber: We're not because we're in, like, really in a sweet spot for where people are at right now. We did, just because I'm coming in, and we are going to be building a brand because we don't really have a brand right yet, we have pieces and parts. We came in and did quad, quant research, and I think our fundamentals as an organization fit with where people are at right now. That's the, that's the beauty. And, the crazy thing is, is our founder has so much vision that he invested in this six years ago. So it's not an overnight success, it's like we invested and we took our time, and we, you know. And so the values of our brand, the functional benefits of what we offer are right what people need, which is easy, create some community and interaction in the app, right?

[00:12:31] Because people are craving sort of, some sort of gathering, and then we deliver a super premium decadent, delicious benefits. 

[00:12:40] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:12:41] And, it's a little indulgence, right? Because people are tired and they want a little fun. I mean, if you, if you think about sort of just different data points, you know, the most amount of small businesses have been started in the last year.

[00:12:55] Laura Luckman Kelber: Um,yeah.

[00:12:56] I just heard that yesterday. 

[00:12:57] Alex Campbell: Wow. That's amazing. 

[00:12:58] Laura Luckman Kelber: Um, and the great,

[00:13:00] resignation and you see people and the minute they could travel, they invested in traveling. Like, people have recognized that life, you can't wait for life. 

[00:13:12] Alex Campbell: Yeah, that's true. Very true. Yeah. 

[00:13:15] Laura Luckman Kelber: You gotta make the life you want now, and they're doing that, right? And so some insights that we're seeing around people is that people that connect with us or use us are people that believe

[00:13:31] that they can and will make the world that they want to see. 

[00:13:36] Alex Campbell: Okay. 

[00:13:37] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, we, we can offer that, right? We actually can live up to that lofty value. Now, here's the thing, not every brand has that, but I would still recommend, "Guys, no matter what your budget, doing some research, secondary, primary, and figuring out what does your brand offer, what do you offer and how do you connect it back to what people are looking for." 

[00:14:00] Alex Campbell: Yeah. And, I guess if you see, so you mention, due to COVID, there's been a little shift in what people are looking for. I mean, do you see, I mean, I hate talking about when COVID is over because maybe one day that'll happen, I mean, what do you see happening then? Is it, is it, I mean, everybody's predicted like, "Oh, it's like the roaring twenties again," and.

[00:14:20] Laura Luckman Kelber: I really think what, I think we're, I think, I'm worried about that, the violence that we're seeing right now because of, because of everything that's going on. I'm hopeful that, hopefully, that will be unleashed more. But I, I do think people are going to be a little more indulgent, a little mark-free because they've been so restricted,

[00:14:41] right, so restricted. And, if you look at sort of Jungian theory, or you look at Shakespeare, you look at any history, you look at any sociology or psychology, they'd probably say the same thing. 

[00:14:53] Alex Campbell: Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's come back, let's come back to the marketing. 

[00:14:58] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah, 

[00:14:59] Alex Campbell: So, I mean, 'cause you meant, because I don't want to forget because you mentioned data, you know, I think data has been one of those conversations that has been going out to marketing for forever. Right? I guess, how are you,

[00:15:11] it's starting to evolve too into the, like, there's the one side, there's the privacy aspect of it, there's the value data creates, where do you see that dialogue? I mean, where, where would you say you are in the, in that world?

[00:15:25] Laura Luckman Kelber: You know, it's so interesting, I was thinking about it today, this morning, and I think it's generationally. I mean, you are meaning Double Good, but I think it's generational. It's interesting, you talk to someone who's 35 and under, or, I'm saying 35 to 20, 25 to 35. 

[00:15:43] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:15:44] Laura Luckman Kelber: Was it 25 to 35, 25 to 40, maybe, they understand that companies are using their data,

[00:15:53] they're fully aware, and they're okay with that because 

[00:15:58] Alex Campbell: Yeah, 

[00:15:58] Laura Luckman Kelber: they want the benefit that comes from that, the personalization, right? People older than that, maybe 45, just 40 to 60 maybe, right, are a little more skeptical because they understand that that's a part of their privacy and their private 

[00:16:20] Alex Campbell: Right. Yeah.

[00:16:20] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, I actually think 25 and younger is going to be more like the 40 to 60 

[00:16:28] Alex Campbell: Yeah because of all the things that have been happening, whether it's in a, the Edelman Trust Barometer is out, it came out yesterday, and you could see that, you know, there's a whole lot of mistrust with tech and media, and it's because of what's happening with data and algorithms and things.

[00:16:44] And, you know, I, I think that we're going to have to be way more direct and transparent. 

[00:16:52] Alex Campbell: Yeah. Maybe not in the annoying way that we're doing right now with the cookie thing, every five seconds and all that, we're going to have to figure out a better way 'cause that, I already see people, you know, becoming tired of that.

[00:17:03] But I think we're going to have to be open and more transparent and say, "Here's the trade-off, guys. You're going to." And then I don't know what, I'm fascinated by Blockchain, and I wonder if there will be a Blockchain solve to all of this.

[00:17:17] Alex Campbell: Yeah, when you could actually own your own data. 

[00:17:19] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah, and you just plug in, right? You just sort of plug in. 

[00:17:24] Alex Campbell: Yeah. I thought it was really interesting, my daughter, both my daughters, actually, who are 10 and 12, in school, they actually had an assembly where they showed parts of the movie called "The 48-hour Ad," and it's all about data privacy, advertising, and they showed this in an assembly.

[00:17:42] And, I'm thinking back to like, to, when I was in, I was in middle school element, like, "Nobody ever thought about that." 

[00:17:49] Laura Luckman Kelber: No. 

[00:17:49] Alex Campbell: That was one of the assemblies for sure. But I think the very thing you mentioned where, you know, the certain age now, all of a sudden, they are aware of it and they, they're aware of the downside of it as well,

[00:18:01] and maybe a little more sensitive to it.

[00:18:04] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. And I, and I think also, you know, I think most companies in my career have never, I mean, Amazon's the most brilliant user, I mean, so many, I mean, but they also have all the money and everything, but they have used data 

[00:18:20] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:18:21] Laura Luckman Kelber: fantastically, like, fantastically. And, I'm not sure, I don't know another company that even comes close and I think it's really, and maybe you do but, you know, it's one of the things that I'm harping on here,

[00:18:35] I think I make people crazy, is, "We're small enough now, let's set up the right infrastructure so that moving forward it," customers think that you know everything about them, right, from get-go right? And most organizations don't have that capability. 

[00:18:54] Alex Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. 

[00:18:56] Laura Luckman Kelber: Well, right? 

[00:18:57] Alex Campbell: Really thinking about data and Amazon, and I think another company that's done well is Starbucks, right? I mean, Starbucks, the app, where, you know. Starbucks too, yes. Yeah, I mean, I went to the office yesterday and realized I need, I need Starbucks, I open up the app and like, it knows, "Here's the where you ordered from last,

[00:19:13] do you want me to put," like, it made, it made my life easier, right? And, I think that's where, on the data side, when the data makes the consumer's life easier and maybe it's easier to consumer product or user product, then it's, it's, that's kind of a, in my mind, the, the, the positive way to use data, when it's used, where I don't know about it it's being used for, like, a company that makes money off of my data.

[00:19:37] Like, that's where it becomes kind of an issue.

[00:19:40] Laura Luckman Kelber: I don't know if it was 10 years ago, I don't know when this was, it was one of those we're going to tape it, and actually Target was a client, but we had nothing to do with this, but there was the article that came out where Target was using their data so well 

[00:19:53] Alex Campbell: Oh, yeah, yeah. 

[00:19:54] they knew when someone was pregnant. 

[00:19:55] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:19:56] Laura Luckman Kelber: And so Target probably also uses their data while, um. 

[00:20:00] Alex Campbell: But it's interesting that data has such power, and especially as we start to get into AI and looking at data and some of, some of the power and opportunities to bring with it, like, I think, going back to your point of, like, you got to stop and think and say, "Is this helping my customer?" 

[00:20:18] Laura Luckman Kelber: Right? 

[00:20:19] Alex Campbell: "Is it helping to get advertising about being pregnant before you potentially told people?"

[00:20:25] Like, I don't know.

[00:20:25] It's so 

[00:20:25] Laura Luckman Kelber: creepy. It's creepy. Well, they were getting in trouble for it because it was too creepy, creepy, too creepy. 

[00:20:32] Alex Campbell: Yeah. And, I do like your idea of the Blockchain. I mean, and I've heard about, you know, using Blockchain to kinda take ownership of your own data and potentially, you know, monetize that yourself, and I, and I think that's really interesting to look forward to. 

[00:20:48] Laura Luckman Kelber: Way smarter than me, will figure that out. That's cool. 

[00:20:54] Alex Campbell: Yeah, exactly. All right, so, so let's talk a little bit about mobile. So you mentioned mobile, like, Sprint days. I mean, where do you see mobile today in kind of it's, you know, the, the adoption piece? How are you using it? How are you thinking about it within the overall kind of marketing mix?

[00:21:09] Laura Luckman Kelber: Well, it's like 90% of our businesses, our app, right? It might be 95%. So, it's our business, but it's interesting because we need to refresh, I'm going to be kind, our website because, you know, we have our app, but the behavior is someone is going to go look us up online and see if we're legit, quote-unquote, legit,

[00:21:34] right? And so our website needs to have a different purpose and our app does. Yeah.

[00:21:41] Website needs to be more like our corporate present, front, really, our front door to the world. The app isn't. The app is useful, the app is, you know, people engage with our app for four days and then they don't come back to us for a year. 

[00:21:57] Alex Campbell: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

[00:21:58] So our app is, is all about usefulness in a very short period of time. It's very focused. You know, we do have some content housed on it to try and educate people in bite-size moments. Right? In the moment. But mobile is like our transactional arm. Now, granted, we need to have a mobile-optimized website for sure 

[00:22:23] because, you know, it's an extension of your body at this. I always said to my husband, I say, "Your phone is going to grow into your hand." 

[00:22:33] Alex Campbell: I I mean, it's kinda like, like, it's funny that when you think about it and step back, I mean, think of, you know, what, 30 years ago, 20 years ago to say, I mean, we always used to have the teachers that said, "You're never going to always walk around with a calculator," like, not only that, I walk around with all of the information in the world. 

[00:22:49] Laura Luckman Kelber: Everything, right, everything, everything. So then I think security is going to have to step up quite a bit. Right? So then how do you balance security with access? Right? That's the other, security data access, how do you balance, you know,

[00:23:03] speed with security? 

[00:23:05] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:23:06] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. That'll be the challenge. 

[00:23:08] Alex Campbell: And then, I mean, how do you, how do you see the kind of app, is the app always going to be focused around that transactional piece? Is it going to evolve? Is it, I mean, it sounds like it's kind of bifurcating to.

[00:23:19] Laura Luckman Kelber: I think it will mostly be, I think the other piece of it will be teaching, like, you know, bite-size teaching about fundraising tips, teaching about our popcorn, and why it's so amazing, right? How we score us, how will we, what we do, how we make it, our ingredients, all of those things. I think there will be moments of communication, but it really is a useful tool,

[00:23:46] that's what it is. 

[00:23:47] Alex Campbell: Yeah,

[00:23:47] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, if we walk away from its usefulness, we walk away from the good that we're really doing. 

[00:23:52] Alex Campbell: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:53] Laura Luckman Kelber: You know? And, it's meant to scale, you know, really our app is meant to scale that small cheer team. 

[00:24:02] Alex Campbell: Yeah,

[00:24:02] Laura Luckman Kelber: You know, and, and they can fundraise anywhere in the country as opposed to. 

[00:24:08] Alex Campbell: Why don't you, can you explain the, explain a little more for people listening, kind of how, how your consumers use your app and what to do because there might be people who actually want to use your app after this.

[00:24:17] Laura Luckman Kelber: Oh, Yeah.

[00:24:17] That'd be great. Um, we're growing really fast right now, so hopefully not too many. Um,so we're expanding capacity as fast as we can, as fast as we can. So what, how it works is that you have an organization like a travel baseball team, right? And, you have to travel to playoffs or you need new uniforms or whatever,

[00:24:40] and you know, sometimes you're selling chocolates, sometimes you're selling wrapping paper, you're selling all these things. Well, we make ultra-premium popcorn. 

[00:24:48] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:24:48] Yeah 

[00:24:49] Laura Luckman Kelber: And so, you know, you have someone who organizes a fundraiser, could be anyone, could be a parent, could be a coach, could be a teacher, right? Then that organizer sets up, and what we call as an event, and they're, the parents or the kids then set up, and they each have their own individual store as part of one 

[00:25:11] Alex Campbell: And, it's all within the app? 

[00:25:12] Laura Luckman Kelber: whole event. 

[00:25:13] Alex Campbell: Right? 

[00:25:13] Laura Luckman Kelber: All within the app, all within the app. And, they'll put a picture of themselves and they'll get a personalized link, they can send it anywhere they want, on Facebook, through text or WhatsApp, through whatever, right? Choose your

[00:25:29] method of distribution of your link and you ask people to contribute, and they can either buy popcorn and have it sent directly to their house, send it as a gift, or they can make a donation, and we actually give the popcorn to first responders or central workers. And, we've given away, oh God, I don't,

[00:25:51] I just saw this number, and I can't remember, it's like many, many, many hundreds of thousands of bags of popcorn in the last year. And, they were really happy, like, doctors in the ER, I mean, 'cause you know, our health professionals are really struggling, so we, we've given to many, many hospitals and other places, fire departments, things like that.

[00:26:08] So you can make a donation there. So that runs for four days. 

[00:26:12] Alex Campbell: Okay. 

[00:26:12] Laura Luckman Kelber: Only runs for four days. We found in our research that that is the optimal time. Really? Yes. And, so it runs for four days, and you, people can raise thousands of dollars. I mean, our top fundraiser raised $300,000 in four days. Now, granted, they had in four days, but they had a hundred members,

[00:26:30] right? So think about it. And, they were adults fundraising with big networks, but yeah.

[00:26:35] It's amazing because then you see what these people do with this money. 

[00:26:38] Alex Campbell: Like, that, that experience, right? 'Cause that really also shows the network effects, you know, I mean. 

[00:26:44] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yes. Completely. In four days, like, 

[00:26:46] Alex Campbell: You never could have done that in the past,

[00:26:48] right? 

[00:26:48] Laura Luckman Kelber: No, because you couldn't have shared your links, right? You couldn't have, I mean, you couldn't have done that. You're knocking on people's doors, or your dad brought it to the office, you know, your mom. 

[00:26:57] Alex Campbell: How are they sharing so much? I mean, is it just they have big social networks already built up?

[00:27:02] Laura Luckman Kelber: That was, that particular one are very well-established, well-educated affluent women. 

[00:27:08] Alex Campbell: Okay. 

[00:27:08] Laura Luckman Kelber: Actually, affluent African-American women and they have a very tight community and a commitment to, you know, giving back, and so they're, I would say they're outliers. Now, our cheer gyms that will raise $5,000 in four days. 

[00:27:22] Alex Campbell: What's, what's the secret? What's, now that you're the insider?

[00:27:26] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, it's not a secret. You need to tag people. You need to use, tag people is number one, hashtag. Right? And, if you, if you can be even more personalized and send it, you know, send text messages out to your phone book, right? I mean, that didn't follow up. Right? So tag people, it's, it's the age-old people. 

[00:27:46] Alex Campbell: I mean, it's really, it's really interesting though, the secrets, I mean, I'm going to tie it back to before, that's marketing, be authentic, be personal, you know, and have a large audience, right? Yeah. Absolutely. You're almost teaching people how to be marketers, right?

[00:28:02] In a way.

[00:28:03] Laura Luckman Kelber: In a way, without the negative connotations. I see a lot of parallels with multi-level marketing, right, so if you think about more modern multi-level marketing companies. 

[00:28:14] Alex Campbell: Skipped, right? 

[00:28:15] Laura Luckman Kelber: Like Rhodan and Fields, right? Or, or something like that, right?

[00:28:18] Because we're not doing the selling, we're just offering the way to do it, right? And the product to sell. 

[00:28:25] Alex Campbell: Yeah, it definitely helps with you have a fantastic product. 

[00:28:29] Laura Luckman Kelber: Well, and that's the other thing, like, we are, we are so committed to the quality of our popcorn, not just the quality, but then the amount of popcorn we have in a bag. I mean, we, we sift our popcorn pieces out three times. No one does that. 

[00:28:45] Alex Campbell: Really? Like what, you get little pieces out?

[00:28:49] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. We get the little pieces that you have less little pieces in Double Good popcorn compared to another bag.

[00:28:54] Yes. 

[00:28:55] Alex Campbell: Wow. That's fantastic. 

[00:28:57] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. 

[00:28:57] Alex Campbell: What are secrets that are there in there?

[00:29:02] Laura Luckman Kelber: Well, we also will not, we do not warehouse anything, that's why we, we've had to sort of cap demand last year. We're trying not to do that this year. We just expanded the plant so that we could help more people fundraise. 

[00:29:16] Alex Campbell: Yeah. So how, how was that? Is that, I mean, as a, as a marketer, is that extremely tough to do?

[00:29:21] Laura Luckman Kelber: Well, no, well, here's the thing. It's a luxury for me because I get to spend the time 

[00:29:27] Alex Campbell: That's right.

[00:29:28] Laura Luckman Kelber: doing research on the brand and building all the brand elements and, you know, making sure that my fundamentals are solid before I go out there. I don't have all that pressure. Like, when I came into the private equity, I had to deliver leads right away. Yeah.

[00:29:42] I don't have that, you know. The pressure that I have when I came in was they weren't doing any proactive communication to their customers. The only communication was trigger-based from the app. 

[00:29:54] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:29:55] Laura Luckman Kelber: And so there was all these things going on and they didn't tell anybody, so people got pissed off. Like, people didn't know how small, how small the company was.

[00:30:02] They thought it was a big company, and they're like, "Where's my popcorn?" 

[00:30:05] you know, "Why is it taking so long?" Why, you know, all these things. And so when I came in, the first thing I did was start, we get crazy open rates and read rates for our emails, like, I think it's like 60, 60.% Who gets 60%? Yes. It's crazy. 

[00:30:20] No 

[00:30:20] Alex Campbell: one I've ever talked to in the last five years. Yeah.

[00:30:22] Laura Luckman Kelber: Telling you.

[00:30:23] It's insane. So that's the thing for me is making sure our current customers know what's going on, you know, we can give them, we can tell them, like, certain people fundraise at certain parts of the, the year and we have to get ahead of that and say, "Hey guys, you're going to have to schedule ahead

[00:30:42] because of our capacity, so get your event in now," 

[00:30:46] Right? Get your event in now. So there's things like that that we're trying to help, you know, cultivate that relationship, right? 

[00:30:54] Alex Campbell: Yeah. And, I'm curious on the charity kind of the giving role, you know, I mean that, that's a whole nother world in itself from a marketing perspective where trust is, is just paramount. Right? I mean, is it a big difference, or do you think that brands still need the trust

[00:31:13] that's just not as big of a, I mean, you mentioned before about how people go into the website to look you up to make sure it's not a scam or make sure. 

[00:31:19] Laura Luckman Kelber: I think it's equal. I think it's equal. It's like any relationship, you know, really marketing's building relationships at scale. That's it. 

[00:31:28] So, you know, I think it might be a little more elevated for us because we're not, you know, it's someone else's reputation on the line, right? It's the person organizing the fundraiser, it's the seller,

[00:31:42] and so, you know, we want to make sure

[00:31:44] Laura Luckman Kelber: their reputationis upheld, right? So it might be a little bit of a higher level, but really think about a, B, a business-to-business, sell, what, you know. And, and I did, early in my career, I did a bunch of research on the different decision-making styles of women versus men,

[00:32:03] women actually choose the individual, not necessarily the, what is the longer

[00:32:09] term when it's a more complicated decision, yeah. And so they'll choose, like, for a financial planner. 

[00:32:14] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:32:15] Laura Luckman Kelber: If they trust that individual,

[00:32:18] Alex Campbell: Interesting.

[00:32:18] Laura Luckman Kelber: they will be fine. 

[00:32:20] Alex Campbell: Okay. 

[00:32:20] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. So it's really a relationship base. 

[00:32:23] Alex Campbell: I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of who I trust. Is it an individual or an institution? I don't know.

[00:32:30] Laura Luckman Kelber: Right? I mean, and I think, going back to trust rates, I would tell everybody to, the Edelman Trust Barometer comes out every year and it's, it's really good insight into an American psyche right now. 

[00:32:41] A little depressing. 

[00:32:43] Alex Campbell: See, I mean, seeing that this year, where, where trust is absolutely dipped, especially with tech and media, I mean, what do you think about that?

[00:32:52] Laura Luckman Kelber: Well, it makes what, as a marketer, right, it makes me think, and with a CEO who really doesn't like to be front and center, I'm going to have to have some conversations with him because 

[00:33:01] Alex Campbell: Yeah. 

[00:33:03] Laura Luckman Kelber: we might run it more front-center. He is really trustworthy and genuine.

[00:33:07] Alex Campbell: Yeah, and that's what people, that's who people are trusting now.

[00:33:09] Laura Luckman Kelber: And, if you look at it, right, if you look in that research, it's mostly their CEO, you know, the individual, their company, someone they know. So each interaction becomes even more elevated to build that trust because they're not trusting anyone except people they know. 

[00:33:27] Alex Campbell: Yeah.

[00:33:28] Laura Luckman Kelber: Right. So then for our app, that actually makes it even more intense because, really, like you said earlier, it's the network effect, and you're using your network,

[00:33:35] well, we need to back up, you know, people need to get their popcorn in time. 

[00:33:40] Alex Campbell: 

[00:33:40] Do you feel like you have to focus on building that trust more now, or maybe not yet, or is it, is that something?

[00:33:50] Laura Luckman Kelber: We have it with our community, people that have worked with us for a long time, but we have a very small piece of the fundraising market, so as we grow, we're going to have to be more deliberate about those interactions. Right? And so, so here's the thing. We are heavily investing in our customer operations, our customer success, and our customer support,

[00:34:16] right? And, and, and that will be in addition to a very easy-to-use app. Right? Because people still want to talk to someone or text someone or, you know, and we're currently building that up, but I think that will be a critical component of our business, is a really robust customer operations division. Yeah, 

[00:34:38] Alex Campbell: absolutely. Cool. Well, so we're coming up on time. I mean, I do, I do want to touch on one, one more thing, which is, it was just kind of Chicago, right? You, you've been around in Chicago for, what was it, 20 years? Wouldn't you say forever? Yeah. 

[00:34:54] Laura Luckman Kelber: Famous Chicago family. 

[00:34:55] Alex Campbell: Really? What's that? 

[00:34:57] Laura Luckman Kelber: If you're a football, if you're a football fan, Sid Luckman's my grandfather's cousin. He was very close to my dad.

[00:35:04] Yeah. My dad was, my dad was a judge in Cook County for almost 30. Oh, yeah,

[00:35:10] Alex Campbell: Wow. Yes. It's a new, you're, like, all blue, like, cousin of Chicago royalty.

[00:35:16] Yeah, my dad, mayor Daley, the second Mayor Daley, actually worked for my dad early in his career at. 

[00:35:22] Alex Campbell: Wow. All right. So you're, you're late. You're up there. Yeah. I mean, I guess, so let's take me through Chicago, I mean, what are your thoughts? Right? I mean, in technology, you know, within Chicago, I mean, I remember we started 20 years ago and, like, there wasn't really a technology scene here. Right? And, 

[00:35:40] Laura Luckman Kelber: we.

[00:35:40] Yeah, which is crazy because Motorola is here? Right. And, Motorola is, was brilliant. They went it all, I don't know what they did, but,

[00:35:48] you know, they were at the forefront, right?

[00:35:50] Laura Luckman Kelber: You know? And so I had a friend who worked for Motorola, and she had the coolest job. She was, like, sort of an internal VC for them.

[00:35:56] It was so cool. Yeah, it was cool, in the nineties. 

[00:35:59] And, yeah.

[00:36:01] I think that should, and we have the University of Illinois. I mean, the tech, 

[00:36:04] I mean, that's where Netscape was invented. Right. That was where it was invented. So, and so I think we're sort of like a hidden gem. I think we're very Midwestern, right? Like, I think we have the good, just don't talk about it.

[00:36:17] New York's about talking about it, Silicon Valley's about talking about it. We actually have the goods. 

[00:36:23] Alex Campbell: It is kind of, like, grew up, I grew up, I grew up out East, outside of New York, and it was a lot of talking, talking about it, and then you get here, and there's so much going on that people aren't talking about it, it was a shock. It was a little shock for me where I'm like, "Well, you did, did what?

[00:36:40] That's amazing." Like, "Why aren't you talking more about that?" It's like, "Oh, it's, it's a, it's a Chicago thing." Yeah. 

[00:36:46] Laura Luckman Kelber: It is. It is. It's more about doing the thing than talking about it. 

[00:36:49] Alex Campbell: Yup. Absolutely. Which I think is a fantastic trait. Right? I think that's why it's been, what, there's like 21 unicorns in Chicago, and, like, you wouldn't, wouldn't know that, right? 

[00:36:59] Laura Luckman Kelber: Yeah. Well, it's like Sarah, right?

[00:37:00] I mean, it's like Sarah went from 1 billion to 3.85 billion, no one knew who Flick Sarah was. They probably still don't know who Flick Sarah is unless you're an enterprise tech person. 

[00:37:08] Alex Campbell: Right, right. 

[00:37:10] Oh, that's crazy. All right. Well, awesome. Well, we will wrap up, but I really appreciate the time. I'm definitely gonna organize my next event, you know, with Double Good and, and, and use the mobile, the mobile app, right? 

[00:37:22] Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much, and good luck with everything.

[00:37:25] Yeah. 

[00:37:26] Laura Luckman Kelber: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.